34. Are You Ready For an Epic BFCM? Here’s How to Win on Cyber Weekend

Episode 34

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The times might be strange or uncertain, and the holiday might be a question mark in your business strategy, but we can get through it together.

In today’s episode, we walk you through how to stay ahead of the competition! Our partners Klaviyo, help inform you of the best strategies for winning the holiday weekend.

You’ll Learn

  • How to prepare for Cyber Weekend 2020.
  • The Cyber weekend predictions.
  • Effective eCommerce strategies that can help drive traffic and increase sales.

Show Notes

02:37What 2020 looks like from the data gathered. 06:57What are the critical drivers for the biggest BFCM ever? 13:06Six takeaways to use this COVID situation to drive better online traffic and revenue. 29:40How to own the growth during this holiday season sale. 31:18What is Klaviyo? 33:10How to stand out while sending campaigns?

Show Links and References

Shiva 00:00

Hi, you’re listening to driven e-commerce at work. The podcast where we bring in conversations with the e-commerce experts. We also put together some interesting content from different places, including our monthly E-Sessions, Speaker Series, and anything that’s related to e-commerce for manufacturing and distribution. If you’re here for the first time, I would highly encourage you to go and subscribe to our show on Apple podcasts, or Spotify.

Shiva 00:35

Hey, everyone, what’s up? Welcome back to another interesting episode of driven e-commerce at work. And I’m your host Shiva Kumaar. It’s end of October Halloween, which means we hardly have just a couple of more weeks to go for the holiday season sale. Black Friday and Cyber Monday. We hosted a great session this month with the Klaviyo on how to win cyber weekend 2020. And this episode, you’ll hear from Matthew Serwin, and Stephanie Flynn.

Matthew 01:04

Great to see everybody. So yeah, we’re super excited to be here also joined by a bunch of partners that we interact with regularly. So very excited to talk about a really important topic today looking at cyber weekend, what we’ve learned so far in 2020, as well as how we’re going to you know, talk about preparing for what’s to come and plan for beyond that. My name is Matthew Serwin. I am an agency partnership manager here at Klaviyo. And I’m joined by my colleague, Steph.

Stephanie 01:31

Hi, everyone.

Matthew 01:34

And yeah, we’re really excited just in terms of being able to talk about partnerships today and how this impacts you know, overall planning, what we do within our roles, as well as you know, strategies and things to go from there.

Shiva 01:44

Before we jump into the topic. Let’s hear it from Matt, and what Klaviyo is all about?And what do they actually do.

Matthew 01:52

We’re an own marketing platform that helps brands create highly personalized marketing experiences with their customers. So we’re known primarily for email marketing. But our platform also includes SMS forms segmentation, data science, and built in custom analytics functionality. We’re also the only marketing platform that can serve brands from day one, also providing a superior product and experience for even the largest of enterprise e commerce brands, which you can see a little bit of here. So we have neon bandits, who is a growing and rapidly evolving startup, as well as chubbies, which has tremendous momentum and is becoming a household name, all the way up to Huckberry and ColourPop, which are very well known larger enterprise size brands.

Shiva 02:37

All right. So here’s what we’re going to cover on today’s episode. I’m just gonna break it down to four things. One, what 2020 look like from the data that clavijo gathered so far two cyber weekend 2020 predictions, three, how to prepare your brand for this tremendous holiday season that we’ve never experienced before. And finally, forest one a simple reminder, and some tips and tricks for your e-commerce brand. So Stephanie will now give us a little bit background about 2020 so far.

Stephanie 03:13

Great to be here today and to chat with you guys about the e-commerce landscape thus far. So back in February, before we really felt the impact of the coronavirus outbreak, we learned that the US e-commerce sales grew 14.9% from 2018 to 2019. This was according to digital commerce 360 applying the same growth rate to 2020. That would mean that we’d expect e-commerce sales to reach 691 point 4 billion. But of course we all know a lot changed COVID-19 hit and gave us new meaning for the word unprecedented. doors closed, the country went into lockdown and consumer behavior changed. More than ever people took the internet earlier this year to make purchases stay at home orders and social distancing guidelines emerged economies labor forces and how people shop worldwide have been reshaped by this pandemic.

Stephanie 04:12

So we sought to better understand the impact that Coronavirus had on the e commerce landscape. I’m not sure if any of you on the line had heard of project lighthouse. But that was kind of our internal initiative to really figure out what was going on. The team conducted daily polls held in depth customer conversations and analyze trends within our own data set. We at clay vo we always capture billions of e-commerce transactions. We have over 50,000 customers today. So we know we had to share what we’re seeing within our products within the e-commerce community at large. So ultimately, we concluded what I’m sure is no surprise to you that e-commerce is really booming right now.

Stephanie 04:56

Our research shows that 90% of consumers Now shopping online, which is up from 70% at the start of the pandemic. With that in mind, we predict that 2020 will definitely be the biggest year ever for e-commerce sales. And here we’re going to talk about how big this year, e-commerce sales could hit $1.1 trillion. That’s a drastic difference from the 691 point 4 billion pre pandemic projection from before digging into the math that would account for 75% growth year over year. So that’s about 15% standard growth we would have achieved remember that 2019 growth rate, plus the 60% COVID driven growth we’ve seen and looking at the average growth rates of more than our 50,000 customers. While 2020 looks like it will shape up to be the single biggest year for e-commerce ever. The same can be said for cyber weekend, which this year will fall from November 26. through November 30. Assuming cyber weekend sales represent a similar proportion of relative overall e-commerce sales in 2020. As they have previously, cyber weekend sales should come in at $51.1 billion for just that weekend. That number alone is staggering. But there’s something else we predict that this number will be larger than what we’ll see for next year. Cyber weekend 2021. So could our projections be off? Sure. As we know, 2020 has been a roller coaster, tons of things have happened that we haven’t expected. That’s made it hard for us to predict hard numbers. But we’re comfortable giving ourselves a little wiggle room here. Based on the sales rate of clay vo customers and Amazon’s q2 growth numbers 80 point 9 billion or 966 million per day, we’re confident to say.

Shiva 06:56

Good. So what are the key drivers for the biggest BFCM ever? Let’s hear the predictions from Matt.

Matthew 07:05

Yeah, I think staggering is the right word to be using at this point. And yeah, we’re gonna see a lot of really exciting things going forward. And here five that we specifically want to call out when we’re looking at Black Friday and Cyber Monday. So the first part shouldn’t really come as a surprise consumer shopping behaviors have now shifted, you know, they are never entirely shift back online has become the new normal. There were people that were probably more prone to avoiding e-commerce for a while and relying on the brick and mortar model.

Matthew 07:35

This is kind of removes that from their consideration set. So they have to get comfortable with this. And even if it’s not completely sticky for that entire group, you’re going to have a much larger percentage moving towards e commerce, especially because we were seeing the growth trends already taking place. And now all we’ve done is really ramped up where that’s going to take us or black friday and beyond. Now number two ongoing waves of the Coronavirus will continue to upend our daily lives with uncertainty. I mean, it was rough even through the summer, we’ve seen certain areas go back up a little bit, we’re heading into the cold and flu season anyway. And then there’s just you know, different rules and methodologies all around the country and all around the world how this is being handled. So there’s going to be this continued uncertainty, which is going to make it really hard for people to transition back to brick and mortar purchasing and really rely on what e-commerce has to offer.

Matthew 08:30

So the third part, I think, if you’ve been following and keeping up with this to any capacity in the news, department stores are experiencing inventory problems and it’s flying under the radar. Not only are they inconsistent with how they’re opening and keeping things moving forward or staying in business, but you’re also now seeing you know, what we saw in the early stages of you know, it was really tough to get certain products as people started hoarding. And then it’s still like, I was personally looking for bicycle pump for my tires, and I saw something it was like a six week wait time. So even simple things that we’re accustomed to getting really quickly, whether it’s in person or online, that still remains a really important factor and something that brands have to pay attention to as we head into the holidays.

Matthew 09:15

The fourth one, no discounts once reserved for cyber weekend will appear earlier and more frequently this fall, we’re already seeing that. I’ve personally seen sales from a lot of our brands starting in the last week of September. And we’re also seeing brands that traditionally have a policy where they do not want to discount or offer any type of incentive, starting to entertain that a little bit more. And I think that’s interesting to see how that continues to evolve and what we can learn from it. And the final piece on this slide, you know, shopping behavior will shift again due to social distancing restrictions and retail planning. We’ve seen you know major retailers already saying you know, our doors won’t be open on Black Friday the way that they traditionally have been.

Matthew 09:56

So there’s not going to be many other options for people to do other things. To shift into e-commerce. So I think how a brand prepares and handles that opportunity is going to be really telling as we go forward. It was 60% of cyber weekend sales are driven by customer that you’ve already had a relationship with prior in the year. So I think that’s really important to be considering, as we head into, you know, this Black Friday and Cyber Monday. This is what we saw back in 2019. We already knew this is going to be bigger than the previous year, because that has been the trend. But now you have this amplification of what’s going on? And how do you make the most use of customers you’ve already acquired and have built some type of relationship with? And are you seeing this influx of activity already? You know, from a consumer driven discovery perspective, you know, what we’re seeing is that it’s an all time high recently, the chart that you’re looking at here, it shows new customers and repeat spending throughout the year across the KBO customer data set. The dark green area of the chart represents the new customers. And as you can see that volume has consistently increased since mid March when stay at home restrictions went into place. Also, even as stores have continued to gradually and staggered reopen the average new customer spending levels still higher than it was pre COVID, which is still showing strength and opportunity for what’s out there.

Matthew 11:25

Now 46% of consumers are shopping from engaging with brands, you know, that are new to them. And this is a sizeable opportunity. But only if you take the time to grow these relationships and turn these would be one time purchasers into actual brand enthusiasts. So how do you do this? You know, how do you gain shopper trust and buy in? This is something that’s really important because a lot of consumers that we’ve seen in other studies that we’ve run, are that people just aren’t impressed with the e-commerce experience that they’ve been having. So this is again, where that 46% number comes into play, where you have the opportunity to not only earn that trust, but really surprise and delight with positive experiences through the e commerce design. So while there’s no silver bullet to marketing, and every brand will find its own channel mix that works for them. And how omni channel strategy works.

Matthew 12:16

Here are some of the thoughts that we have around it. Email performance is through the roof, emails a proven marketing channel for revenue growth across our full customer database. Email driven revenue is up 86% compared to pre COVID time, across clavius own customers, we’re seeing a 22% increase in open rates 43% increase in email clicks, and 60% increase in revenue per recipient. Granted, these are averages, some customers are seeing much higher performance even. So now email marketing as a channel is not a total strategy. I want to stress that because these performance stats are largely driven by delivering the right message to the right individuals at the right time. So if you can nail that in your overall scope, this is what you look at. In terms of games,

Shiva 13:05

These productions look insane. I really like the email performance, I mean, email driven revenue is up by 86% compared to the pre covered time, I mean, this is really a great boost for all e-commerce store owners. So how to use this COVID situation to drive better online revenue for your brand. So here

Stephanie 13:26

Here are six things that we’re really going to dive into throughout this presentation that you as an e-commerce marketer should really focus on, we’re going to look at these much closer. But for example, reviewing 2019 performance, understanding who your audience is building those core segments, improving deliverability, and so on and so forth. We’ll get into those right now. So number one on the priority list, review your 2019 performance and set 2020 goals. taking stock of inventory, the need to set goals based on last year, performance isn’t new, but your business state heading into cyber weekend might be and probably as many brands have inventory issues right now they’re not able to fulfill and replenish as quickly as I thought they would. I know Matt gave a great example of that before, if this is you to make sure you analyze your performance data against what inventory you have, and then push what those customers are responding to.

Stephanie 14:25

Now if you’re on the smaller side and starting out, and then maybe this is your first holiday season, it might be tempting to overlook this goal setting and really just jump right into execution. Obviously, it’s a very exciting time of year for your business. But if this is you or you need a refresher on goal setting in general, we’ve included an example here that you can reference when you get the slides of this presentation later this week. So if you’re a larger brand new party probably already have these tools set up for this huge part of your year because you’re operating from With each and every week, but based on the performance record that you had last cyber weekend, one thing we’ll want to do is see if there’s a sub goal that you’ll want to hit, it could be around increasing your customer lifetime value of your VIPs, or heritage customer segment, maybe you want to convert 25% of non subscription customers over your subscription offering, no matter what the size of the brand is that you are working on.

Stephanie 15:26

Remember to define your Specific, Measurable, Achievable, Relevant and time bound SMART goals. And like I said, this is important for both small brands and for large brands, who may already have a broader plan in play. You’ll also want to really make sure that you’re aligning internally with all stakeholders. So whether that’s your product, creative marketing, or your agency teams, it’s really important to make sure that you’re all on the same page, making the time to really connect with the partner network that you’re working with. Whether it is your agency partner at play can be very important and pivotal, and how successful your brand will be this year, because we want to make sure that everyone’s kind of aligned on those larger plans. And then also those smaller sub goals. So you’ll want to discuss the current state of the business discuss performance last year, and how you’re planning on improving that this year, brainstorm ideas. And then make sure every single person, whether they’re internal to your company, or external, within your agency firm, make sure that they’re accountable for their actions there.

Stephanie 16:33

Next, you’ll want to determine metrics you’ll use to measure success. So I gave some examples before maybe you’ll want to look at the number of repeat purchasers, maybe you’ll want to look at your average order value, but just ensure that you’re setting specific metric based goals. That way you can kind of measure how you perform the season after the fact. And last fleet, you’re going to want to iterate based on data. So analyze what’s going on throughout the holiday season. Essentially, if you’re starting off the strategies before Black Friday, Cyber Monday, which we would recommend, you’re going to want to learn beforehand, pivot and then optimize your strategy. That way you’re getting better and better and hitting those metrics at a broader scale here.

Stephanie 17:14

All right. Another focus that we really want to touch on here is growing your audience and re engaging contacts. I know Matt mentioned that it’s important to start now to really make sure that you’re requiring your customer base, re engaging those who have purchased from you before because these people are really going to matter during this holiday season. So first and foremost, the cheapest way to build your email list is through website forms. So if you don’t have at least one form set up on your website, we recommend adding one ASAP, especially if you’re utilizing clay vo Form Builder is kind of an existing product functionality that comes with clay vo so it’s super important and very seamless to add that form.

Stephanie 17:58

Beyond that, think about how you can personalize each form to create unique, unique and advantageous experiences for your users. You can use forms for newsletter signups birthday rewards, tiered discounts. It’s really better to have someone to land on your website and not purchase anything and then subscribe to your email updates rather than just bounce and not come back. And that’s really because then at least you can better understand who that customer is understand who and what they’re looking for, and serve them better with your email strategy in the future. Awesome. They’ll also really want to focus on your acquisition strategy, as I mentioned. So the closer we get to the holidays, the more crowded the ads marketplace will become. So consider all the retailers that are pivot pivoting to e-commerce driven sales.

Stephanie 18:44

I mean, Matt and I see that all the time, brands whose historically focused on brick and mortar and really are making that digital transformation. So we recommend that brand marketers focus on acquisition now, but monitor online ad performance and cost closely so that you can adjust when necessary. In your acquisition efforts. retargeting existing segments like cart and browse abandoners lapsed customers are super good ideas. We also suggest taking that VIP customer segment from before creating a look alike audience based on it. That way you’re using that first party data that belongs to you to find more people that look like your best performing customers. Reaching a more qualified audience helps lower your CAC and increase your return on ad spend.

Stephanie 19:33

If you have a clay vo account you can use your clay vo Facebook and Instagram integration to do all these things. You can also capture leads on Facebook and Instagram and feed these contacts into Klaviyo in real time. We consider testing the Facebook lead gen form versus sales promos. In our conversations with customers it can cost anywhere between one and $5 to acquire an email address is five to $12 to acquire It’s most important to get email addresses right now while it’s cheaper, anywhere between one to $5 to acquire an email address versus that five to $12 to acquire a purchase here.

Stephanie 20:13

So when it comes to re engaging lapsed customers, it’s also better to do this sooner rather than later. That’s because these contacts are lower in terms of email engagement rates, that could damage your sender reputation down the line. And we want to make sure that we have really high engagement heading into cyber weekend promos, so you can ensure your emails are actually delivered. So really focusing on engaging these contacts to help deliverability is very important. So before we really get into the weeds of the holiday season, trying to back up those winback efforts in the next week or so. And then you’ll want to retarget those people on social advertising later through another channel if you want to try and engage them. But this is in an effort to help those deliverability goals. They’re awesome. So building core marketing segments, this is another huge focus that should be taking place for cyber weekend planning. Building core marketing segments are really important. And we have four main ones you’ll want to definitely use this year. So one being subscribers that have engaged with your emails in the last 30 6090 and 180 days.

Stephanie 21:32

That way, you have those different pools of engagement, and you can segment and target those accordingly. You’ll also want to create a segment of cyber weekend 2019 purchasers, so these would be people who place an order at least once in the last year, and place orders zero times since cyber weekend last 2019.

Stephanie 21:54

A third segment to create that will be really great is your best customers. So those that have bought from you recently, buy from you frequently and buy at a very high ARV. An example of that would be someone who’s placed an order more than three times overall time. Or maybe they’ve placed an order value three times your average order value. And then last but not least, your master list is super important. So that is all contacts with email addresses that are not suppressed. So these are four key segments that we want to make sure that you’re building out. So focus on these to start when you’re looking at your kind of email strategy for the holiday season. So next section for really assessing and improving your email deliverability.

Stephanie 22:44

And this is hyper important for that time of year because we want to make sure that your customers are receiving the emails and the great content that you’re putting out there. So for starters, look at your average email open rate, it should really be above 20% heading into the holiday weekend, if it’s not there yet. That’s where those marketing segments that we just talked about come into play. To increase your average open rate above 20%. start sending to the engagement list outlined that we went over before, you’ll want to give yourself at least a month or so to do this list forming and thereby improve your sender reputation. How does this help increase your average open rate? If people who have engaged with your brand more recently, and have opened those emails more recently, if you’re sending to them, your open rate is going to increase. And you’ll be able to hit that 20% benchmark. You don’t want to shock mailbox providers with a sudden increase of email send volume right away, you want to make sure that you’re building up to that sending volume.

Stephanie 23:49

That way your reference reputation is in the clear here. And now we’re heading into section five, which is optimizing your website experience for customers, which is super, super important. So one thing to really consider is looking at expectations by generation. Not and I were talking about this, and you could really do an entire webinar on website optimizations alone. But here are the main highlights. First and foremost, check your website health in terms of site speed, uptime mobile compatibility come cyber weekend if your site goes down due to kind of this increased amount of demand which we definitely are affecting, or if pages don’t load quick enough. You could be losing a new customer who could be visiting your site. So you want to make sure that that doesn’t happen. You also want to make sure that your website has mobile friendliness.

Stephanie 24:44

A lot of people are going to be shopping on their phones we see this very frequently. Do you want to want to make sure that that is up to par? Is the experience optimal for a customer are they having a good shopping experience are the products rendering correctly are forms when Go directly on to the website kind of interfering with that shopping experience. Those are all things that you want to look into navigation, for example. So make sure that you are kind of checking all those boxes, especially when it comes to website development and kind of make sure that these concerns if there are any or put to the table now with your team, your web development teams, that way, you can kind of get those sorted out prior to the big weekend coming up.

Stephanie 25:28

And then beyond those functionality, kind of points that I just mentioned, ask yourself if your website is designed to optimize for conversion, think through cyber weekend specific experiences you want your website to include. Do you want to feature a gift guide? Do you want gift browsing in the upper navigation? Do you want pop ups with gift recommendations. One thing to really keep in mind this year is some people are shopping online for the first time. So the web site user experience is going to be increasingly important for generations, like baby boomers, for example, who maybe historically have done all of their shopping in person for the holiday season.

Stephanie 26:10

So building trust with these new users by adding product reviews, optimizing your checkout process and over communicating your return policy is hyper important and will allow them to have a great experience, which will hopefully make them want to come back to shop with your brand again online. So another thing we want to chat about is that idea of revisiting things that are maybe already up and running to get today. So revisit your automations that you have set up, start running AV and tests and see kind of what’s working best with your customers.

Stephanie 26:44

So you’ll want to look at those five major marketing automations that everyone should have set up. So you’re welcome theory, browser management, cart abandonment, post purchase and back in stock. And then when you’re evaluating those five major automations, you’ll want to ask yourself, does this language Make sense? is it relevant to the holidays? Are these promo codes relevant? Do they have to do with summer? Do they have to do with something else? That’s not the holiday season? Maybe update those? Is the content personalized enough? Is the revenue per recipient high enough for these automations? Should you keep them running during a time? Or do you need to kind of do testing changing them up to kind of ensure that you’re seeing those metrics that make the most sense.

Stephanie 27:26

We’ll send a more detailed breakdown and performance benchmarks in the email follow ups you can see how you compare to other people who specifically are utilizing these automations within your vertical as well. And to improve performance and make the content more relevant to recipients. You can always pack a ton personalizing by gender by product, category interest, customer lifecycle stage average order value VIP status, there are a million ways to purchase your communicate, excuse me to personalize your communication strategy. That way, it’s relevant for all the customers who you are speaking to through your brand, other ways to personalize that you should consider imagery, subject lines, that’s actually another one that I recommend testing a ton before Black Friday, Cyber Monday to understand what subject lines really resonate with your customers, testing out timing, you can add timing delays to your automations kind of see if kind of hitting your customers more quickly or giving them some space between emails, that’s a great thing to Test.

Stephanie 28:37

Test that content and messaging and then also discounts and incentives understand what discount what incentive is really going to allow the customer to convert based on what segments they fall on as well. Okay, so last but not least, it’s time to see really what works. AV testing doesn’t have to be a huge undertaking, especially in Klaviyo we’ve figured out a way to implement AV testing within signup forms within automations within our campaigns to make it really easy for marketers to test things out. But you want to figure out what you want to AB test. So whether that subject line, your CTA button color, and incentive, and then make sure you’re just testing that one variable. If a CTA variation leads to a 10% increase in sales, you’ll want that CTA in place for the busiest shopping season of the year. It could really make all the difference when you’re trying to hit those revenue goals this holiday season.

Shiva 29:40

All right, the final step how to own the growth during this holiday season sale.

Matthew 29:46

It’s very clear that there’s a lot of robust strategies that people can be putting in place and a lot of great tools to use. I think it also really further reinforces you know why our partner team looks to partner with great system integrators in digital marketing agencies because this is just so much that they have on their plates as a brand, that looking for these trusted outside resources is a huge advantage, you know, going into this holiday season or really any time of year when you’re looking to just scale your brand further to kind of build upon that. So now we’re going to take a look at the concept of owned marketing and owning your own growth.

Matthew 30:22

You know, people are flocking to brands that value the relationship with the customer experience over the transaction. You know, these stronger experiences are creating convenience, quality and most importantly, trust. Like Steph had mentioned with consumers. These traits show that a brand under that understands the consumer and they can connect with on a personal level ultimately ends up driving customer advocacy and leading to even more sales growth sustainably in the future. Now, this superior customer experience doesn’t start at the point of the first purchase, it begins the moment a customer is exposed to your brand. And these DTC brands are winning new customers in two main ways. You know, first their existing customers and become loyal and market via you know, word of mouth for the brand. And secondly, they use well targeted new customer acquisition, leveraging their own data to do this.

Shiva 31:18

Now that you’re ready to go and implement some of these actionable insights you hear from this episode, we’ll also tell you what Klaviyo is all about, and how this marketing platform built using the customer data is gonna help your growth of the online business.

Matthew 31:34

Now this is all been made possible because we built klaviyo. With all of the customer data, the robust profile and behavioral data at the center of the platform, we made it really easy to collect and store an unlimited amount of data at the customer level, all of which can be used to build really powerful experiences.

Matthew 31:54

So you should be thinking about clay vo is much more than email platform as this graphic implies and shows you why with clay vo you can leverage data from all of your channels and build relationships. Now this is also an example of why we have built out dedicated partnership team here at clay vo because our partners are integral to the success of our customers, whether that’s from technologies integrating into clay, vo or digital marketing agencies and system integrators working with customer brands, in order to create the best possible opportunity to achieve success.

Matthew 32:27

Now the proof is in the platform 67 brands switch to clay vo every day, and our customers have made more than $3.7 billion in revenue in the last year alone. We recently ranked number 22 out of 100 for fastest growing products and number 39 out of 50 for best products for marketers in G2 annual survey. And we’re also the recent winner of the MAR tech breakthrough 2020 Award for Best Mar tech startup. So really glad that we were able to talk you through, you know what we’ve learned this year, and how we’re helping brands prepare for the holidays and beyond. And look forward to talking with everybody on the panel and getting their insights on just what they think about all this.

Shiva 33:10

One last thing before we wrap this up emails, how often should we send emails? And how to stand out while sending the campaigns?

Matthew 33:20

It’s a really good question. Um, I think it comes back a lot to the brand strategy of you know, what are you seeing in terms of like how you’re defining too many emails today, you know, we’re looking typically around three to four emails per week are sensible, but you also have to really dig in and do look at the content. Depending on your brand, you might have more or less leeway for more frequent touch points. But a lot of that has to come from the fact that you need to be generating really meaningful content to like we talked about build that trust, as well as give people you know, something that they can care about. It can’t all be sales emails, and it definitely can’t all be campaigns.

Matthew 33:56

Part of the advantages of clay vo is that you can get hyper personalized with the data that’s on the profile. So that, again, is going to give you more organic outreach and touch points to make sure that that exhaustion doesn’t happen. But it’s a great thing to be aware of. That’s a great starting point. And then beyond that, I mean testing and looking at the metrics of those performance emails, that’s what you’re going to want to keep an eye on, you’re gonna want to see like what your bass line was, you can look at benchmark reports provided from Klaviyo and then really understand, you know, where are you in that spectrum? And what can you be doing to adjust it? Because I mean, there’s times that people think they’re sending too much. And we look at their account health and they’re actually performing above average. So I think there’s sometimes a learning curve there but really making the most use of the analytics you have in the personalization. But Steph, anything to add to that.

Stephen 34:45

Yeah, I would say that creatives, really test new ideas and concepts out with your customer base and understand if it’s sitting well with them by kind of the AB performance metrics that you can see in the platform. I don’t To say that I mean we spend a ton of time educating our partners on what’s doing well within Klaviyo. So really leaning on your partner resources, to kind of work with them brainstorm, get creative, get those creative juices flowing is really helpful sometimes working with that outside voice can spark new ideas. So I would say really just look at those metrics and then really kind of look around you and see what is being successful elsewhere as well.

Shiva 35:33

Thank you so much for watching and listening to this episode of driven e-commerce network podcast. This show is brought to you by DCKAP. The company well known for its e-commerce product suits for B2B distributors. Make sure you subscribe to our show on Apple podcasts or Spotify. Catch you guys very soon with another interesting episode. Until next time, see you.

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