Markus Rach

40. Why Now Is The Right Time To Leverage TikTok For Your B2B Ecommerce Growth Strategy

Episode 40

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LinkedIn remains the social media platform for B2B brands. But, we shouldn’t ignore the rise of TikTok. TikTok is on the verge of becoming the fastest-growing social media platform. The app lets people create short videos with music, filters, and some other stellar features.

So far, Tik Tok is the most downloaded app of 2020, and the pandemic seems to have had a large part to play. TikTok has 800 million active users worldwide, says Datareportal, which makes TikTok 9th in terms of social network sites, ahead of better-known hubs such as LinkedIn, Twitter, Pinterest, and Snapchat.
What makes Tik Tok stand out is that its algorithm does allow anyone to go viral.

This episode will uncover some essential tips and tricks for you to launch a social media handle in TikTok.

Markus Rach, our guest today, is a CMO council advisory board member, Lecturer of Marketing at the University of Applied Sciences NW in Switzerland, and guest lecturer of digital marketing in a global context at SZTU in China, and author of the world’s first book on EduTok and Co-author of the world’s first EduTok paper.

You’ll Learn

  • TikTok in numbers.
  • TikTok ban and userbase.
  • Creating brand awareness.
  • How to run campaigns?
  • How do communities respond?
  • How does the platform scale?
  • TikTok as an ecosystem. Are we there yet something similar to Facebook marketplaces or Instagram business.

Shiva 00:00
Hi, you're listening to driven e-commerce at work. The podcast where we bring in conversations with the e-commerce experts. We also put together some interesting content from different places, including our monthly E-sessions, Speaker Series, and anything that's related to e-commerce for manufacturing and distribution. If you're here for the first time, I would highly encourage you to go and subscribe to our show on Apple podcasts, or Spotify.

Chaitanya 00:36
Hello, everyone. My name is Chai. And I work as a Product Marketer here at Cloras. And today, we're having the fourth session of the Ebiz Masterclass, with the very talented Markus Rach over here. And today's subject is on TikTok a B2B, as you can see clearly in the presentation, so I don't know much about it. So I let Marcus talk about how we go. I mean, we I let him give his introduction and what we can expect out of him today. So Marcus, over to you.

Markus 01:04
All right, thank you very much. By the way, he's been lying, he knows quite a bit about it. Nice intro chat. So I think we have definitely experts around who can correct me if I'm wrong. So thanks very much for inviting me, by the way. And thanks so much for giving me this chance to talk before I start. And this is really important. I have a tendency to use bad language. And as you can tell, I'm talking out of the White House.

Markus 01:28
And things might happen that not everybody likes. So for this reason, I have right at this presentation and my speech are right, just to be clear, and frank on this. So who am I? My name is Marcus, I have two kids. So that's why I work my dad bod, which you can see right now I'm on the zoom call. You might hear two kids. So if it you know if things play out, they might even run into excuse me for that. I've been an absolute nerd in my past life stuff being a call of duty player at a time when you couldn't earn money with Call of Duty or any games, right? Yeah, thank God, um, that I was born a couple of moons ago. Um, and then for whatever reason, I got myself into the B2B world. That started with me getting my MBA in Australia. And I started with the first B2B company and shifted from strategy at some point to marketing and that was honestly pure chance. And this is how I ended up in this whole mess. And, and what I'm doing now, which is basically teaching researching in China and in Switzerland, so it's kind of like my thing. I'm pretty sure you have no interest in my research. If you do look me up on LinkedIn, I'll tell you everything about it until you fall asleep.

Markus 02:42
So the topic of today will be TikTok, right. Um, I do obviously have a tick tock account and I would assume everybody on the call or in the soon conference will have one to probe most likely. I'm the marketing guy on TikTok, I started this early January as an experiment, which I use for my papers there, right? So I have no intention whatsoever to be famous on TikTok, or be an influence or crater on you. And you have to, if that account would be gone tomorrow, okay, I could live with it. But currently, I have 300,000 followers, 15 Million Likes, I think current 70 million views, which is for me pretty extensive, because I've never had this on any other platform. And it's kind of like the proof to my wife that other people like me, which, which is odd. I give you a feeling what I do sometimes on TikTok, um, here's one of my videos that got roughly 10 million views.

Markus 03:49
Yeah, that's the sort of stuff I sometimes do. Um, as you can tell, I don't put too much effort into it, maybe because I do have a job, I do have a family. And there's other things in life for me, then creating TikTok videos. And as I said, I started this as an experiment to write papers about, learn about the platform, learn about some influence, learn about how the platform and me trying to create videos would impact my life and would impact my theme would impact how I create content, for example. And I publish on this different academic papers, which I know nobody ever reads. And therefore every now and then I'll write a book, which some people pick up read, and, you know, give me feedback every now and then. And usually, I also get banned on takes off for what I do. I've had four bands, um, temporary ones, one permanent one and kinds of shut up and so I'm definitely the baddest academic on the planet by now, at least by this definition.

Markus 04:41
All right, um, then to continue I need to say this, I need to stress it because I also say to my class advertising sucks. Nobody gets up at any given day in any morning says, Jesus Christ. What could I do today? Let me watch let me go on YouTube and watch some ads. I can't just can't wait for the pre roll to finally start. And I don't want to click on the five second button when pops up to skip the ad and watch the extra content. This is really important for me when we get to talk about any platform, as well as TikTok, I don't think we go and consume content to consume advertising. But the business models have started to evolve around advertising. By the way, I stole this quote, If you want from a New York stern Professor called Scott Galloway. So blame him for that he's much older has almost no hair. It's not my fault.

Markus 05:29
But I do come in peace. I obviously, I mean, no harm, I do fool and joke around and whatnot. So don't take it too harsh. And I try to have some fun. But I tried to dig into a couple of things that we usually we don't talk about. We don't talk about when we look at other platforms. But we also don't talk about when we look at platforms, like TickTok, and I think their mechanics and methods at work that we need to understand not just as human beings, that's one side of the coin, but also as organizations, how dependent for example, might we become from a platform, if we put our eggs in a basket, which, you know, we shouldn't be doing as based on portfolio management. So what do I attempt to cover I thought I had 30 minutes, I have slightly more, which is great. As you know, um, as lecture, I can talk a lot. So we, we have to end the exam a bit later. And I'll just push it through. So I'm going to talk about the good, the bad, and the ugly, which is my preferred way of doing things.

Markus 06:29
The good starts with what's happening on the platform, how are brands already exploiting the platform? You've already seen from China, I think he's done a couple of postings on LinkedIn, there's countless brands on takes, like I couldn't name them all. I mean, this won't be completely impossible. But some brands, I think, already doing a phenomenal job of using the platform. Some brands, you know, could maybe improve on some brands completely missed the opportunity. And within that field is probably a lot what we find in B2B. And we look at some influences in the bath worth in caves, maybe, you know, a bit better, for example, attic at disclosure by influencers. In the US, the FTC is already looking into this, I spoke to them this morning in our briefing in Europe, as always, Europe is lagging a bit behind them. It's a case by case thing that is happening here. And then the ugly part, we're looking at mechanisms at work, what keeps us so incredibly engaged on the platform, what drives the content creator to create a certain piece of content? And why might the business have to put in more money in the future than today to reach the same sort of audience. And we see, having a platform, no matter if it's taken up or not, is probably the license to print money, which is a pretty cool business to be in.

Markus 07:45
So um, to start with, let's look at a few numbers, just in case, I obviously have no idea of how much experience people have about TickTok. So I'll, I'll start with some of the basics. Take up has been downloaded globally a bit more than 2 billion times, which is pretty tremendous. I know we've had the single day yesterday, we looked at the numbers Chinese pulled in. And so everything seems miniscule if it's not in the hundreds of millions, but 2 billion downloads, quite impressive. For an app that is basically only been one two years on the market. Right? That's pretty cool. Um, as reported, has roughly a billion video views per day. I think that's Wait, I think it's actually way beyond that. But, you know, TikTok scares with reporting numbers. So you have different numbers in the market. And it's your choice, which numbers you tend to believe,

Markus 08:37
As in monthly average users, that's na EU typical cash recorded in August 700 million. But obviously, that number will continue to increase, I think they're going to hit the billion very soon. And I'm pretty sure we're going to hear this. Obviously, an impact to the monthly ever chooses, are some of the bands that take topics dealing with and we get to one of the bands we've discussed before in India, there's more than one user in India and banning India will of course have an impact on the amount of monthly ever choose a number that could be tremendous if that goes back up. And really, really important for us. Um, the average user spends roughly 52 minutes on the app a given day.

Markus 09:21
So out of the 25 hours a half and this is important for me, I have to morph into my role as a lecturer, everybody, no matter if you're orange or not, you have 24 hours a given day. This is your limitation we all face, right? And that means for us that within this 24 hours a given day, we have to make choices with what do I spend my time where do I place my intention, and there's also a principle attached to this which is called the Paradox of Choice. I have to stop here because otherwise I start teaching teaching about the Paradox of Choice and what it means for product management for collection portfolios.

Markus 09:56
Um, but this is quite important for us to understand that our choice To spend 52 minutes with TikTok. It's not bad for an app that most of you probably didn't half a year ago. Right? So pretty cool stuff. And TickTok is super engaging. Again, I'm pretty sure chilling has it and playing around with it no issues with with the ban. But if you are on TickTok in the experiences, I think probably everybody shares, you open the app and you tell yourself, I'm just going to have a quick look, right? And take a quick look of the first 15 seconds turns into the next 15 seconds and turns into another 15 seconds. And two or three hours later, you find yourself thinking, Jesus Christ, what have I been doing? Right? You've been watching TikTok. And why is that? Because TikTok is amongst the very few platforms in the world that understands to capture the core of your your very soul if you want through an superior algorithm that we haven't seen on other platforms, at least not to this extent. And that algorithm doesn't ask your questions. It doesn't say hey, Ty, or wherever else is in the call? Do you like music? Or do you like blue better than blank? Or do you like apples, oranges? No, it just shows you content. And it starts to optimize based on how you react upon the content. And this is why you have this accelerating experience being on a platform thing, I just keep on scrolling until my summers Oh, or you run out of battery, whatever comes first, right? So the algorithm is important, we come back to the algorithm, and the power that algorithm holds over its users. And how fascinating or how I'm capturing this experience becomes through that.

Markus 11:42
And then of course, we have bands and take up being in the media, just we have to cover this. I don't make political statements. But you know, this is the easiest to explain. As you know, TikTok has been banned in India and actually has been banned in India twice. The first ban was a fairly short period of time that got lifted, TikTok initiated the editor initiative, which brought new light and a complete different image to the platform. And I think that was beyond genius. There was a move of very agile management that I personally at least wouldn't have an example for of any organization that was able to replicate that, or has done anything similar in the speed velocity, the tape was able to bring to the table.

Markus 12:24
And the other band that we're currently talking about this, obviously the band that might or might not happen in the US, right, it should have happened already, but it hasn't happened. And then suddenly, as a notice being going back and forth. There's a lot of history to that, by the way. Also, based on the musically acquisition that TikTok had in the past, which we're not digging in, it's just old stuff. It's, um, doesn't matter. Um, Oracle, and Microsoft had packwood bit in a bit in two acquired a stake of TikTok in the US. And that should have helped to overcome that looming ban, right? If the US operation takes over or your organization takes over Yes, operations, that ban is apparently not happening. It's really, really grateful. But what happens if Trump doesn't get reelected? Which, of course we know is not it hasn't happened, right? So he'll stay for another four years in office. But if it would have happened, that somebody else would, would have gotten elected, that might have changed the deal, right? So therefore, we'll have to see how this plays out. But keep in mind, there could be another looming ban, that of course, changes a couple things for the user.

Markus 13:34
And a bit more than harm of the users are male. And of course, I was wondering, how could that be right? as an academic and also like a solid academic, right? I don't see myself as you can tell, as a pure academic Bunny, kind of like wonder how could that be? And if you look at the change of demographics, it has been largely female and 18, it suddenly started shifted right? theory to make it a good thing. I won't stop here, right? Let's leave it at that. What can I say? But, man, with bacon, you catch mice. And I think that's an effect we see on the platform seen on many, many other platforms. We're not going to go too deep in here, but something we need to acknowledge. And we need to understand and if you look at the content of the platform, you will understand that the young demographic that we get to talk to him quite a bit, of course plays very much with with that thing at work. By the way, the song you were just hearing is the what? song which had a walk challenge. And I'm not telling you what what means you can google this and it's not wine and pizza, by the way, and that has 3.3 billion views on TickTok , just to throw in another couple of numbers.

Markus 14:56
Anything above 3 billion views are having 3 billion views. I don't think many have us in marketing half achieved with anything we've done. It's pretty high numbers, right? So let's move on here. I'll take the audience looking apart from obviously, you know, slight male dominance as of now, but its percentage gap that we can, we can ignore. it's skewed to the younger side, right? We don't have to get into too much details, but we can tell it's skewed to the younger side as of now. So we find pretty much the generation set on the platform, which is the generation everybody's talking about now. The evolvement of the generation set, what will it mean for business? What is their worldview and whatnot, you have all these discussions, obviously, in the media.

Markus 15:39
But what is important for us is, of course, to think about, hey, you are generation set today in a certain age, but in a couple of years, he's still generation set, but you're older. And a couple years later, you're older as well, right? We had the discussion, I think I saw post shy as on LinkedIn. Um, how did Facebook look on the very beginning? How does Facebook look now with 2.7 billion monthly average user, right? Is TikTok the new Facebook? I don't know. We'll see how that plays out. But a young demographic today doesn't need to mean a young demographic tomorrow, demographics can change, they can age, and they can attract new demographics to come in. And I think we've seen that minette millennials, for example, started to swamp the app, and have fun, right? I kind of like counter this group as well.

Markus 16:28
This has happened. So why not others, right, it's not impossible, we have to keep this in mind. And this will be very important when we when we continue. And plus something I haven't mentioned, there's a Chinese version of TikTok, which is called Douyin. Everybody knows this, funnily enough, but if you look at the Douyin, we already see an ageing of the demographic. I'm not saying old people like on Facebook, but I'm saying an aging of the demographic, not just 13 year olds, right. This might happen as well on this platform, particularly if we see tech innovation from the in swapping over e-commerce, visual search and whatnot, it could change the demographic tremendously. But now, what does this all mean? We've seen some stats, we've heard some stories about TikTok issues about bands and whatnot. How does this translate for a brand or for an organization? And I think it translates into a savings of roughly or a time difference of roughly six minutes. But what does that mean? What it means that a platform that I've just mentioned, Facebook has only a six minute engagement advantage of TikTok.

Markus 17:37
The average user stays about 58 minutes, you know, plus, minus, obviously, on Facebook, on TikTok for 52. This is amazing. If you think about that Facebook was founded in 2004. And TikTok in 2016 came to be in 2017 St. Africa download the merger in 2018. And you probably heard about it in 2019. The first time, right? Absolutely amazing. This is the engagement. This shows us where attention goes to. This shows us how society might change how technology is impacting society. And of course, it should get us to think because we need to question what is the job for us? And I would assume many of you are probably marketers or marketers are interested in marketing, what is the job awesome marketing.

Markus 18:25
And I said before very polarizing for all the advertising sucks, again, quote from NYU stern Professor Scott Galloway. So it's not my fault. But what is our true job. And I believe, and again, this is just my opinion, that could be two very different perspectives. But part or core of our job will have to be to understand environmental changes, and their impact on the interplay of the consumer with your own our brand. So that we can react upon these changes, right. And these changes can be meaningful, they can be technological changes, they can be societal changes, they can be political changes, for example, would happen in India, what happens in the US, that can be changes of any sort and scope that you could ever mentioned, there's different tools and whatnot to capture these changes. And I think these tools we need to apply if you want to know more about this, come to one of my marketing basics classes where I do this little stuff. It's really cool. I'm not on PowerPoint, PowerPoint sucks as much as advertising. If you don't do it in real life, we haven't done it right, PowerPoint doesn't win you the battle.

Markus 19:28
Now, and if we don't capture these changes and ranked upon them, or maybe even pre anticipate changes and do something about it, we might end up at some organizations that we see on the slide. For example, Nokia, which in my generation when we tried to be cool in school, everybody had a Nokia, um, apart from the few odd people with a Siemens but everybody else had Nakia who is not here today. I know, Kodak photography, Who would have ever thought that today we're not speaking about Kodak anymore blockbuster A video kinda like same story man slept in and suddenly Netflix was there. And now we have streaming warm blockbuster plays a role in that thing. receitas in the German automotive industry is probably the next one on the horizon, they kind of slept into the whole heart test as kind of like funny. Oh, Jesus Christ. Now it's worth more than us. Let's do something. By the way, Mercedes, we get to speak to them and get to speak about them later, they're very active on tik tok. But not having a great product, TikTok doesn't help you. So this is something we have to rule out advertising sucks, it doesn't help over the velocity of having a product. And Facebook is my opinion are gonna be the next one, we have these sort of charts that an organization that might disappear.

Markus 20:41
And again, the lack of product innovation might be found in the cost that we've placed on advertising the example I've mentioned before, but I don't want to go too much into this. So let's get back to TickTok and start with the good. What is the good about TicTok, we have to mention I said already, we get insane attention, right? I've never had personally on the experiment I've done and as I said, I don't put too much effort into the content mainly because I lack the time to do so. Right? My average upload is between two and five minutes creation and upload this sort of like what I do that's the max i can I can mostly for um, many brands have already seen this and a student and said hey, let's capture some of this attention. For us. I give you some examples obviously just to you know, highlight and then we move on

Markus 21:35
To Paulo, a US fast food chain again been mentioned already in the LinkedIn posts. So everything I tried to bring already giants put on LinkedIn, so all the flurry is gone. But they have jumped on fairly early on on TikTok actually, they've had a hard time on the beginning to get into rhythm of TikTok. But they started to do three challenges. I think they also had branded stuff going on, I'm not quite sure about that one. But they had three challenges. one you see here on the right hand side to burrito challenge, which they had over Halloween or over the Halloween period 4.1 billion views. It's pretty impressive, let's say right, and they captured 1.3 million photos, which is not a bad number either. We would of course have to compare this to you know, the other channels which we're ignoring.

Markus 22:19
The next one we have to talk about is dunkin donuts. And Dunkin Donuts hasn't gone challenges but they have gone into a influence of partnership. The lovely lady you see here on the right is called Chile the million we get to talk to her about her in a bit. Again, because it's quite important. And she has announced her own drink with the Dunkin Donuts friend, the Charlie, why is this so important? Watch the familiar as it happens is not just 16 years old and really likes to bite her lip. But she's also the most vocal person on the platform and approaching 200 million followers on Tiktok. Now, nobody else has this number yet. on that platform on Instagram doesn't mean much, but on Tick Tock is pretty impressive. And for 16 year old, I think it's pretty dope. And by the way, just as a fun thing. 7.6 billion likes. We have 7.8 billion people according to the census on this planet. So almost every person with a smartphone sometimes a bit more gave her a like it's pretty pretty dope. But of course with that and why do I bring her up with 100 million views I think she's prone with the rest of her family to replace a lady that probably all of you know that tried to break the internet therefore she might stay forever and become again to an array detection of this talk. I can't do anything about this and astron happen but you know Kim Kardashian she tried to break the internet in 2014 failed horribly with it at least we still have the internet think otherwise we couldn't go on a shopping spree. Remember? Black Friday and Cyber Monday is coming up on presale spend as much as you can. It's important we buy stuff we don't eat. fun thing for you guys. She has admitted hundred 90 million followers on Instagram. She's not on TickTok. Right. So it's kind of like the old breed of influencers By the way, which is interesting. Because some say today, you don't need any more talent.

Markus 24:10
So in Kim Kardashian sense, I'm not quite sure what the plan was is to take you put online and people see it and every become famous in them and gain your influence. But you know, again, this would be more than our right to talk on that one. I'm pretty sure you've seen it. This is the dumbbell your family. So you see that Charlie demonio the the second point of left arm she has obviously a sister and she has parents. It's not so much of a surprise. They all try and take talk the platform off the off the charts. And they have a combined 200 million followers. A bit more. I just I just summed it up the other day. On the on TikTok By the way, we're not counting YouTube, Instagram, and Twitter where they've also brewed a following insanely and they show one thing which I think is pretty impressive. Sort of like the cross over effect and the spillover Effective conversion of followers from TikTok into other platforms. If you look at the average youtuber and don't take Mr. Beast, which I assume you guys know 45 million plus followers doing insane stuff.

Markus 25:12
Most of them take years and years and years to get to a million or even further, right, Mr. Beast, by the way to return in 2012, Charlie had nothing on YouTube and had millions of followers. Absolutely amazing. And she has 6 million followers now and trilla, which is which is sort of like a competitor to to TikTok, not having done much not invested much in the app. So this is basically the spillover effect, which is important for us brands. So think about, could we exploit something of this as well, right? could take to be a platform where we capture attention, and then convert some of the conversation maybe on a different platform. That's, of course very much case dependent. So keep in mind, if you only up to the middle, your family, my opinion will be the next conditions. If this is good or bad, I leave it up to your judgment, I don't think it gets much better than if possession would move into the White House, but maybe for this.

Markus 26:06
Then another challenge I have to bring up which I think is insane. By the numbers. The toll is one of the brands that you know, these haunt handwash sanitizing type things. Yeah, I like it. This is sort of my gun, my fetish, but it has been pre Corona. Um, and they launched the campaign. When when Corona starts to spike in India, earlier this year, I think it must have been, I forgot to check again, the date but march march ish around like around March, beginning of April, right. Yeah. And, and I mean, we saw the spike happening in India and didn't get too much news over here. But I followed it. I was like, Wow, it's a fairly populated country. Let's see how that plays out there. So they launched this challenge. And this got hundred 25 billion views.

Markus 26:56
This is a number that is hardly to be captured in any sense, right? If you come back to your manager and say, hey, we've run a campaign put in hundred 50. Grand? And how did you do how many people did to reach? Well, you know, it got viewed on 25 billion times, it sounds impressive in the first place. We can now of course, argue and dispute What a view means. And the latest information I had a click was a view video started playing. So it doesn't mean you watch it to the end, you would have to look at the average watch time and whatnot, which of course, I don't have to be statistics that only the tool and take could hold on this. But this is a number guys come on. This is not none of us have ever had anything of that sword in any campaign. Not even if you run naked across the Superbowl field, with kadesh, Ian, and try to break everything from the internet to the PlayStation five, we wouldn't get hundred 25 million views, at least not so quickly.

Markus 27:58
So absolutely insane. Here's some examples of other brands, it's impossible to name them all this would dis dis, you know, we would need a couple of days for them probably. But you see this everything represented on tape from from newspapers, obviously to a lot of media and streaming organizations. Amazon, this is interesting to me, because Amazon, not just amazon prime, but Amazon media. UCLA is one of the few universities that kind of like tries and take a look, at least the World Health Organization does a fairly good communication to reach down generations, and sensitize them about COVID. And what it means, you know, to do certain things. But there's many, many brands currently missing.

Markus 28:39
And I think there's many brands missing that have opportunities, and they don't even see these opportunities. Right. So with this, we start to move over to the bad, which inevitably has to happen. So we appreciate the good a bit more. So what is the bad and again, this is just opportunities that are perhaps universities as such, have so far in my opinion, failed to see and use this platform as a as a way or an enabler to capture the student buddy. I think there's so much opportunity, particularly for education, right? With that shortening of attention spans with a young generation you try to reach and get into your university body to reach on a platform where they are most universities still failed to do so. There's a couple on there. But I mean, if you look at University of Michigan, 16 point 7000 followers on this show. This is this is a joke number shouldn't be like that. And if you look at the hashtags of certain universities, they have millions and millions and millions, sometimes even hundred millions of views. And the university is not represented that forgiving opportunities like crazy, which we also see of course with organizations right it's an interesting university but I really liked better certification because I'm currently in education and education will probably be the next sector that will see bigger disruption.

Markus 30:08
Here's an example of Bosch power tools. Bosch insanely great organization, and there's been a discussion on LinkedIn or it was discussion on LinkedIn. We're not profile tool should be active or not active on on, on TikTok. And what should they be doing? Here, we probably see an example of organization that struggles with accepting the rules of the game on the platform, right? By being able to capture attention to where you need to capture it on their platform. You see on the right hand side, it just checked the hashtag Bosch obviously, there will be mixed mixed stuff in between our power tools, but roughly 100 million views, right? Why don't you capture that hundred million view conversation become active in it, at least listen in. But Bosch has done some of the basics to the homework.

Markus 30:58
Then another thing, which I think is not so glorious, we see lots of brands coming to the platform working with influencers. Just one example doesn't matter who it is, but decades Mercedes Benz as the brand, working with an influencer having a couple posts, but we don't we see no disclosure in the post. Depending on where we are and who we are, we have different rules or regulations we need to adhere to. But I would recommend any organization working with an influencer to put in the contract, that the influencer needs to disclose this is a paid promotion of some sort, puts you as a brand in a much better light. And it's really, really ugly. If the FTC in the US, or some other legal entity, depending where you live comes along and says, Hey, by the way, we think this might be a commercial deal. Try to prove them wrong, I think it's going to be tough. And then of course, we see organizations that have a pure transactional focus on the platform. And one of them being apple. I had to recapture something I put on LinkedIn a couple of months ago, because it's hard to find advertising. If you need it on the platform, right? There's different forms of advertising where I'm not going to get into in depth because you can find this on TikTok itself much better than if I regurgitate it. But apples one Africanisation sets a price man never thought that Apple would actually become active on TikTok, they opened an account fellowship, I mean, hundred thousand for Apple, that's got to be a joke. It's around the number.

Markus 32:22
But it started to put advertising. To me this kind of like, very low effort, just capture audience engagement, convert audience to another platform that in that case, you get to the Apple science Apple website. And you see only that transactional focus, I think Apple's leaving a lot on the street, they could get way more, but then we talk about the most valuable brands on the planet that probably doesn't need to build so much more. Then another campaign, which I thought was absolutely horrible, that was product, they found a campaign with Charlie, the most evil person I've mentioned before, very early on today, in February at the Milan Fashion Week, so Charlie dance, I think six or nine times two products. And at the time they had disengaged from the product. First of all we see here on the left hand side trolley again, no edisclosure, pretty sure the FTC came along and gave a little snap and said, Hey, we'll let you go because you're 15 at the time, but not again. And Prado. That's a screencapture. At the moment, they had this, this relationship with Charlie in February, they didn't even bother to put their put their logo on Tiktok. I mean, this is to meet the definition of no effort machine. If I do anything like this, I wouldn't be on the platform at all right? As a brand. This shows to an audience that has a very high level of engagement on the TickTok platform compared to many other platforms. I don't care, I only want your money. No brand should be a bit smarter than this. It took a couple of months to finally put the logo in and make sure to get the blue tick, which means on the official site of product.

Markus 34:00
I've mentioned this before, be careful when you do any any sort of paid gigs with influences, which is sort of like the trend on the ticker platform, many other platforms, trilobite always pushing this heavily to work with influencers, the FTC and many, many others are on the case the FTC much much stricter than organizations in Europe. As always, you're usually next in line a bit. I think European politicians are still struggling to understand the internet but they're getting there. They're getting there. We're you know, we're catching up. We're having 14

Markus 34:29
And then we have again many opportunities that miss tremendous opportunities, many organizations that Miss tremendous opportunities and these are industrials. Right hilty doesn't usually sell to the B2C market, most of the sales would go into the B2B this is like the the craftsmen using that equipment, using it to build whatever they build with them. I can't build much so but you see here there's countless examples of what people do with hilty. You find different hash tags with hilty products, even hilty is nowhere to be found hilty Where are you? This is an insane opportunity. This is your target crew selling your product. Right? I saw a guy I think in Brazil and he showed how to solve an issue with the hilty machine. I mean, Brock mentioned we got please, they're not far away from me. Um, but I think they're still sleeping in its liquid state. And on the other hand, we have Selim, it is an interesting case, by the way. selmy is a an Italian machine manufacturer for the What do you call it? missing the term currently, um, you know, to produce chocolate, whatnot.

Markus 35:44
It doesn't matter. So they produce machines and use these machines to produce groceries of sorts, right? So this is a sector, there's a special term for that apparently missing it. And they have been mentioned in a triplet brand in Switzerland. As you know, I'm in Switzerland. I like to eat chocolate. No, I'm in completely off the platform. I'm not saying they could now capture this and have sales on the platform. But Jesus Christ No, it no it right here just said that this post I mentioned, calculates a little chocolate Brian here. As you can see, they're not having too much success on the platform itself. But their most one of their most viewed tic tocs was with that brand. Sell me where they basically bragged about wanting their machinery. I want it,

I got it. I want it. I got it.

Markus 36:36
Right. These are two media examples that as brands in the B2B space, at least we should listen to, we should find this. And maybe exploit in our platforms. I mean, this is great stuff you wish 41,000 people with your brand out of them, there's probably not one buyer. As of now, most likely.

Markus 36:56
Use this humanize your brand somewhere else and become maybe part of the conversation. I want it Yeah, by the way, if you want to know more about advertising, or any of these resources, is just very much go to take from itself and not to the campus experts and bureaus, great people out there and whatnot. But I think TikTok knows best what the app can do and what they can offer in terms of advertising. And for this, they have the TikTok business site which offers a lot of information you can log in and blah blah blah, I'm not going to go in detail. And of course they have the TikTok creator marketplace which is interesting because it's in my opinion one of the ways that shows us how TikTok is trying to get control this by the way, in my opinion, very much a Chinese mentality you don't control your business you control the value chain right this is I think it's smart.

Markus 37:49
So what does it mean for us as brands the absolute minimum I think we should be doing is to secure a brand name on the on the app right? I do this in pretty much every app I go on secure of name and then I have the Navy for one to use it's great if I don't want to use it no harm done. I'm second listen to the conversations if you have a brand new mentioned brand at least check hashtags. Do a search if you can be found maybe you found in a positive light. Use it maybe you found in a negative light. Just block the users now Just kidding. Um, listen to whiners and negative light hilty is examples right machines are failing. This is stuff I would listen into and see what I can do. I probably have a lot of learning because I have this quick consecration, which is cool, right. The last third point to me is learn the format, creating a 15 second video, which is the average of the blank or more the most viewed content on TikTok as you know, 60 seconds is the top is super, super hard. What do we do is industrials, we create these 20 to 30 minute industrial videos with a with a strange industrial music that puts everybody to sleep within a two minute first two minutes right?

Markus 38:52
Here, you have to capture attention in the first one or two seconds or people swipe up and you're gone. Right? learn this format, get it get an account that you call bunny 24. and experiment with that content. If you're able to master this content, I believe we can use the shortening of attention, spend learning from the platform and use that content maybe even apart from Sal advantage. And then of course, if your audience starts to pop up as a brand, if your current audiences start to mature, which will happen, or more mature audiences join the platform, think about how you could use the platform to your advantage. This will be very much case case dependent. But examples of what it could do is of course employer branding, amazing opportunities. There's law firms on it that do it. There's banks on it that do it right it's not impossible. And you can find the gap between the ticker culture and your own organizational culture and probably mixing between that is still funny and entertaining and not being you know too blunt.

Markus 39:52
Challenges maybe put your spin as an organization on a challenge. doable, doable. Behind the scenes, what's happening in your organization again. This is coming from banks that don't think do this very well. And as last point, of course, you can humanize your brand, which is more and more important, you know, going forward keeping in mind to 25 limitation that all of us have the choice we need to make as individuals, private and work life, with whom or what do we want to spend their time. And that, of course, brings us to the attention. Part of this presentation was brought in most exciting one, the ugly, the ugly side is always the best. The other side will be the one that we portray in the fake as media. And this side is, of course, coined by a couple of factors, one being the influences of just mentioned before, here's something I captured on LinkedIn. It's a post by a guy, I didn't know I blacked him out, of course, who needs a man once I have a manager because it just reads through an account Tick Tock and want to monetize now? Is that for the platform? Um, fair enough? No, I completely get it.

Markus 40:56
Today, this is three times likelihood that a kid wants to be an influencer, rather than an astronaut. I never want to be an astronaut. But still, it's kind of like the thing you think your kids will say, I want to be an astronaut, doctor, lawyer, not an influencer. But hey, that's something we have to deal with. And also something I showed you before, we have to be very careful about. And that brings us to my master slide, if you want, I probably gets me banned, again, if somebody listens in, but hey, doesn't matter. It's my sister makes me Deputy Secretary. This is the mechanics that a platform very carefully here can put to work. I'm not saying do this put to work can put to work, right. And there are different mechanics that have a play on the players being involved. Let's start with the user. I said just before, we have an algorithm at work, and I'm almost done, by the way, we have an algorithm at work that's trying to optimize the user to stay the longest possible out of the 24 hours available in a given day on that platform and show the highest level of engagement. But why would that be Jesus Christ? I can't figure out why would they care so much about me that I look boring that what dances and other things that I shouldn't be seeing my age? No, because your time can be sold for advertising purposes, you are the product of the platform.

Markus 42:18
This is why the platform is free. And the story bottom line, this is this is it. This value is a platform numbers have conquered into for time reasons. So the clueless user is getting optimized by the algorithm. But wait a minute, to optimize the time on the platform off the coolest user, we need content. But the platform doesn't create any content. As you know, it's only marketplace to bring different players together and optimize towards a goal. So where does the content come from what content comes from the content creators as in, right? On TikTok is like 35 36% of users are content creators, which is quite big. Um, per se, per definition, if you want to be one of them right now, with no commercial interest whatsoever, because it keeps me dependent. But if it be contemplated with any objective in mind that I've done research on this, which will be published next month. This is super interesting. If I have an objective, I can be manipulators by mechanics off the platform, which which fly into my objective. This is of course, the crane to fun. This is of course, the views I'm getting because the views equal the monetization potential I have. So in other words, if I don't play by the rules of what follows my views, my views could go down. If I'm playing by the rules of platforms, my views will go up. Interesting, right? The recent stuff done, by the way highlighted that creators with commercial interests were hundred percent manipulatable, in the sense of they would do anything they would optimize for us rather than, you know, the opposite. Of course.

Markus 43:50
I'm just saying it could I'm not saying it's happening. I'm saying it could. Why did I get banned four times? I don't know. Every time I got banned, I had a post on LinkedIn, that was a bit critical. But I'm just you know, coincidences happen. I'm not big in statistics. Then we have brands brands bring in the money, right? Because we establish that we're the product but somebody has to pay for the product. And this is the brand to tries to sell you that stupid product bag that every 13 year old once No, because a a 16 year old with hundred million followers tells you you have to have this back. So this brand pace that you see the ad or see the content of the brand.

Markus 44:25
What would happen if that brand would create its own content, and he would see the content, then they wouldn't pay for it anymore, right? I thought it would suck because nobody pays a party, Jesus Christ, I have no idea. Let's restrict the organic reach of the brand, which by the way on Facebook is ever by 5% and make them pay more to reach the audience. That's pretty cool. Now let's throw this all together and assume we want to optimize towards the platform objective, which is of course monetization. It's a capitalistic environment. And there's no blame on this. And that means we can basically or we could we could I'm not We can we could steer all the players in the game and optimize our goal as a platform. That's pretty dope, right? So think about this. That's what I mentioned on the very, very beginning. If we become as brand dependent on one platform doesn't matter if it's Instagram, and Facebook, is it TickTok or Trello, we might have a problem in the future, because what seems cheap right now will become expensive, then, right. So now just keep this in mind.

Markus 45:25
There will be alternatives on the planet, turtle is one of them currently looking, it's a really interesting platform, don't want to sell him my book. But this will be interesting to look in. And again, your job as a brand manager as a marketer is to understand technologies coming to the coming to the market into action sort of changing. And with more and more bands that are looming around TikTok, there must be an alternative that people take on Is it real, I don't know, it doesn't seem sexy YouTube shorts, my socks, by baby trailer looks good. So with that, I am done. I'm trying to speed up on the last part, and I'm ready to start the exam.

Chaitanya 46:03
That was absolutely wonderful. And I right now, in this very moment, I envy all your students who get to sit in your class, because this is perhaps the most engaging session that I've had in the last one year or so. I really hope I could attend one of your classes back at university. So you know, this was so condensed in terms of how information is so necessary for on every level, you know, there needs to be a sense of driving information that then builds on to other actionable intelligence. Now, the question I mean, we I have certain questions of my own. And if at any point, if one of our participants who are watching this would like to jump in and ask questions, they could just write it away and just share it on screen. But one of the few questions that I had internally was to make three broad themes that I'd love to get your thoughts on. One is communities, so how communities respond in a presence of a like a TikTok or with a brand or XYZ, whatever it may be. Then secondly, is that how does these platforms scale so exponentially? In a market, which is supposedly saturated? Because there are so many competitors? Right? And the well, we'll get to the third one, if we answer these two, well, So first, let's go into that. So how do communities respond to a question of, you know, a brand platform coming right into this play? So

Markus 47:27
Just to clarify myself? What do you mean, with communities like this your

Chaitanya 47:30
Community? So for example, how students would jump onto this app because they see their friends going on? And how businesses would jump onto this app? So is there a particular indication we could look into or a trigger or megatrend, we can follow and then see, okay, this is this just might happen? And let's?

Markus 47:47
Yeah, that's a very interesting question. Um, I try to answer as good as I can, um, there's at least a theory on digital platforms on the platform economy, which we're currently talking about in many, many fields, not just in social media, that there's a theorem called the winner takes it all. And this is basically once a platform reaches a tipping point. Right. The question would be, what is the tipping point? Is it 100 million users is 500 million users? Is it approaching a billion? I don't know, I would assume it would have to be geographically dependent, right? If you look at geographies and how much it takes up of a user base in a certain country, you would inadvertently almost have to decide as a user, as you as you just said, Do I want to join my friends and be within my peer group? Or do I exit that peer group and I think the example we've seen in the past was Facebook. I mean, a genius invention, you know, Mark Zuckerberg is getting a lot of blame in the press. But, you know, he brought something up to the plant that now use is used by 2.7 billion people on a monthly basis.

Markus 48:56
That's quite tremendous. But if you look at a lot of people why they own Facebook, and that includes, for example, myself, I don't like the platform anymore. Um, for different reasons. I'm not very fussed about my privacy, because my life is free out there. But I keep my account, first of all, because I'm a marketer, and I want to know what's happening. But second of all, because my friends on the platform, so if I want to connect with one of them, that's in India, for example, you know, that I met my studies in Australia or with somebody, yes, that's why I do it. Right. TikTok, and this is I think this is interesting. TikTok doesn't built yet very much on your Friendship Circle. But if you joined yet, it doesn't ask you to connect your phone phonebook and invite all your friends and you know, build up your network. It's basically only focusing on you and your behavior.

Markus 49:49
So we'll I think we'll see. TikTok art, in my opinion, tick tock grow through the individual user being super engaged with it and showing it to somebody else saying, hey, look at this, and I saw something super funny. This is what I did. For example, my wife, I showed her like a couple of dog clips. Obviously, the bot wouldn't fly, right? Like, hey, look at this, you want to do it to him? And just, you know. Um, so I think that's one way we see spread, currently apart from happening. And of course, you want to see insane news coverage that the platform is getting, I mean, contains all the news, you can't miss TikTok, think there's not if there's one app on the planet, you can't miss this ticker, what it's good press or bad press as the saying, of course, there's no bad press in such. I'm not quite sure if that holds true. But there will be my attempt to look at this. And what's the other question you raised? So

Markus 50:42
The other question was the scale at which customer acquisition occurs with a new platform coming into a market that is supposedly already saturated with millions of users, millions of brands and all that kind of thing? So how does the mechanic of that thing works?

Markus 50:58
I think, what we what we see here, and again, if you look at TikTok TikTok has brought innovation to the table, they haven't created a new social media platform that just said, Come here, post content, invite all your friends, you can send messages and you know, do everything you basically, you can do on every other platform, which Google tried and you know, didn't work out so well, and many, many others. With what they brought in with an algorithm. I think they have the element that creates that addictive nature of the platform to an extent that once you have it, and I remember how much longer I taught the course the course last year in China, and every now and then I had internet issues in my apartment, and then you know, I jumped on TikTok, and, you know, watch TikToks.

Markus 51:46
And I had no reason to do it. But it was super engaging. Because it showed me exactly what I want the right. It didn't default me. I mean, it showed me it captured me in a way that nothing else ever did. And I think that brings a an aspect also a fun aspect to the table in other platforms just can't capture anymore. And if you look at overtime, there's what we call industrials planned obsolescence. I think we see the same theme or phenomenon of this. Also in the digital world, where things just become unsexy. I mean, just Facebook doesn't have the text in his pocket anymore. You know, if I think when I joined Facebook, it was really, really early on. Um, it was it was cool, man, you were like the one there and you invited your friends like oh, cool, and blah, blah, and yet the ones that didn't want to come, but he had a coolness factor about it, that's gone. It's not there anymore, right. And for the younger generation, you mentioned if my kids like my oldest one is six, he doesn't want to be in a platform. We're on this. First of all, because I see what he does. And it's just cool anymore, right? He doesn't want my content. And I think that's something that that that TikTock managed to do as an incumbent to the space of off of social media. And I think TikTok managed to do something that many apps tried, but didn't get to dislike this short attention span. phenomenon we have before as in content can be long anymore, it should be shorter, and capturing you in no time at all. And nobody did this to this point. And it just wasn't there. I mean, Facebook had nothing of that sort. It was just you upload your crap and whatnot. YouTube is long form content you can't get into you have to be almost a professional videographer to have any chance on YouTube. And so TikTok, I think captured this really, really, really well. That would be my thing. Okay.

Chaitanya 51:52
Second, I think we had one question coming in from Yeah, I think one of the questions which came through is that it's from sin. Nab, I hope I'm pronouncing that right. It's metadata helps us target businesses on Facebook. Is there a similar tool for TikTok?

Markus 54:12
Yeah, I think on business. If you're gonna take a business and create an account, you you get informed about the different ad views you have. And in there, also the opportunities to target users and I think TikTok is constantly expanding on what they're currently offering. And one thing though, the offering usually depends, again, on a geographical space, they don't roll out on a global level it all out in the country, and then they add other countries to it. Unfortunately, the contrary, I live Switzerland usually gets bored of the last two, most of the things because obviously, it's not the most important country per population with 8.4 million people. It's kind of like the suburb of a village in India. You know what I mean? So that means waiting, sometimes quite long, but yet it Already have targeting opportunities, which I think are interesting. But TikTok has now a problem, right? Because you don't state preferences and likes as you do on auto pub, for example, on Facebook, where you can work with written major data such TikTok has to understand you your behavioral traits, right?

Markus 55:20
I think it does, it does so in an insane way, then again, that's the algorithm, get the app, download the app, get an account, start watching TikToks, and judge for yourself how good defeat captures you. And this is how good the algorithm is. And if you look at at DISA, this capability, then I have no doubt they can match whatever you put to the table to the current behavioral traits they can capture from user to have a great targeting opportunity. However, the current fcnr that are floating on the platform, I think are just overkill in terms of, you know, being intrusive and not not having a relevancy at all, at least the ads that I'm currently seeing. So it's not, it's not going to the best my perception as a user, but I also think brands are missing heavily to create content that doesn't appear like an ad as they do on other platforms.

Markus 56:21
Apple is a great example what they put on tik tok they wouldn't have on any other platform on YouTube. It's just an app, nothing else, right? no effort whatsoever to be different on TikTok, or capture the sense off of the narrative, if you want on off take talk. So I would try to work with the I will try to work with the Tiktok team. I think they're very approachable, because they want your money, like our platform. So they would love to do this. And find a way to be as native as possible to the app independently, so not all eggs in the basket.

Chaitanya 56:59
Right. So just I think this is more of a one last question. And this is very B2B focus. So

Chaitanya 57:05
My first brush with the Tiktok happened with students from University of Nottingham in Ningbo, China, which is a province. It's in China Ningbo. And I was in UK when I was with my friends who were visiting, and I just happen to see that what they were doing. So the thing was that there are ads that pop up time and time again, right, and you're scrolling and you're not aware, but something strikes, and everything's great. And you mentioned the entire workflow of how things occur, you know, the content creators being paid by the brands and all that. So the question is that as an integration platform as our business, that's close, right. And we reach out to major businesses, and we asked them whether they want to get an e-commerce space or something like that. Yeah. So do you think just what happened with Facebook marketplace, you know, they came up with the marketplace couple of years back, and then it's sort of died down, and then Instagram business game, and we can already see that it's going through a disintegration decay. Do you think that TikTok's there? And if it is there, what's the ecosystem is going to look like?

Markus 58:08
I think, well, first was a very good question. Um, my my perspective on it, or my take on it, if you look again, at the , and what the yen is already done with, for example, ecommerce integration and visual search, they have taken it to a level that I think not apart from house, I mean, you walk, Douyin watch a video, and you can click on any item you see in the video, and you can retrieve that item. And ideally, you can buy that item. So this is a level of integration that will that is mind boggling, right? It also means you're able to read unstructured data and nobody else.

Markus 58:37
If you think about these that will present themselves. I mean, look at the the trend Emilio mentioned before, she would be the walking billboard, everything she has on from the makeup to the hair to the watch to the jewelry and jewelry itself clothing would be you tap on it on the app. And this could be fully integrated into your experience. It doesn't have to be an ad per se anymore, right? This will be fully integrated. Think about watching that Bosch palatable video, where a guy in Brazil is like, Oh, this is how you I don't know, build a pool or whatever problem resolves whatever he builds you construct, you tap on it, and you get to the Bosch power tool side, or you just get a deal on the Bosch power tool.

Markus 59:17
The next phase that could come to play would be I believe, what we call algorithmic commerce. If it comes to be enough, I don't know. But we've seen Amazon trying to have the one click purchase and they struggled with the zero click. But if Tiktok is so good in reading your mind, or your behavior and with the behavior, I'm having some like an interpretation model of who you are and what makes you and I mentioned, they put this to play, for example, with a partner like Walmart in the US. And you got a box sent home with productivity. I don't know well, what could be different products. And let's just assume you keep part of these products and get the recipe sent back. And the algorithm sharpens again and this will be sort of like the idea of our work. printers you get product before you know you want or need these products. Let me need some ones we do things we distinguish in marketing. We know what our needs are, you know, something's missing in your life if one state of deprivation and want to shave by your surrounding to it, but this could get to a completely different level, right? There would be no semantics necessarily involved, it would be a behavior that could be judged. If an algorithm gets put on different platforms, maybe even taken out of TikTok or spread across a commerce platform.

Markus 1:00:34
I think this could change tremendously how we interact maybe with businesses, the question I think, will be, but again, maybe I'm wrong assumption, right? how well the algorithm can calibrate items you receive versus items you return. And if this is reaches, I break even of profitability. If returned more than you receive some possible if a return more than breakeven would have been as an unprofitable business not gonna happen. But if you reached a state, this would be absolutely frightening. It would be amazing to some extent but even frightening because I think about you take almost any selection power away from the consumer.

Markus 1:01:17
Um, you know an extent you're sitting at home and you coke comes home and you kind of like thirsty in this moment. I got to bring a coke Are you gonna send it back and wait for Pepsi? You know, just saying, Amazon if you want to play around with this, not to the extent the tape I think will run to bring to the table. This will crush everything we've ever seen. But if you want to play along with this, try Amazon Alexa and do an Amazon search for batteries. A batteries. That's my experiment I usually do in class, you look for a bedroom, you find different categories of Amazon, Amazon shows you from Amazon. I don't know best price, Amazon choice, Amazon XYZ blah, blah, blah, sponsored and whatnot. Right? And you see if you're ever like you're known better is like Duracell and whoever right? And now ask Alexa to order your A batteries on Amazon. And Alexa will give you that will only give you one thing that Amazon home or Amazon basic like the home the own brand of Amazon, right? This reduction of choice? To a certain extent, the question will be that convenience then overweight and the the missing of choice. So he's just satisfaction going down by the missing of choice? Or does convenience make up for it as in? Hey, Alexa auto meters, or with TikTok I don't or with typical algorithm. I don't even have to converse anymore. I'll just come home and I have um, I don't know, my chicken parmesan yet home to cook at night because TikTok fingered by the stuff I watched and how I interacted on the platform that this is what I want to eat tonight.

Chaitanya 1:02:50
I mean, this is interesting it is this is hyper connectivity of data flowing from and then just free well going down and decision being taken for you. And you just become convenient with that because it's well, less cognitive workload. So yeah, completely. Well, this has been so insightful. Thank you so much. Before we end the session, we just given a brief to our viewers, but the next session will be so in the next session, we are joined by learning how to use video creators and B2B marketing. So you could join in and you can know more about the entire session on the Cloras website. And

Chaitanya 1:03:27
Before you go, Marcus, if one of our viewers who are really inspired and incited by the entire conversation that we've had today, would like to reach out to you what's the best method to reach out to you?

Markus 1:03:37
Um, just look for me on LinkedIn. I'm very easy to find on LinkedIn with my name, Markus Rach. And just shoot me a DM and we'll talk.

Chaitanya 1:03:49
All right. All right. So thank you so much for being here today. This has been absolutely wonderful. And thank you for taking the time for us. Thank so much.

Markus 1:03:57
Thank you try and don't forget, I don't can't see it.

Chaitanya 1:04:00
Definately, bye bye.

Markus 1:04:03
All right, see you.

Shiva 1:04:08
Thank you so much for watching and listening to this episode of Driven e-commerce at work podcast. This show is brought to you by DCKAP. The company well known for its e-commerce product, so it's for B2B distributors. Make sure you subscribe to our show on Apple podcasts or Spotify. Catch you guys very soon with another interesting episode. Until next time, see you.

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